A Coastal Christian Interview
COASTAL CHRISTIAN: I have chatted and worked with all of you at various times and in various settings. All of you display what may be considered Christian behavior. So I am curious as to why the formal church setting doesn’t work for you all. I know you can’t speak for all young men, but it is interesting to get some direct perspective about why you don’t’ go.
Silence. Then laughter
O.K. LET’S START WITH ANOTHER QUESTION. WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU WENT TO CHURCH?
Marquis Kennedy: Well, actually I went to church two weeks ago. I went for a funeral – it was my grandmother. I went for spiritual reasons. My grandmother was well known in the church and community. She was also an Eastern Star. The main reason I went was to say goodbye to her and to connect with family because a lot of them were from out of town.
Craig Tootle: The last time I went to church was earlier this year and I went three or four times consistently then. I just wanted to explore and see what was out there. I even took my girlfriend with me one time. I like going occasionally and finding God on my time. Jeremy Dyches: The last time I went to church was over 10 years ago. My family forced me to go even then. I was raised Mormon. And I wouldn’t call that church; it was more like a cult. Torian Adger: The last time I went to church was with my mother about two years ago. The reason I went was to see what is going on in church now compared to back in the day when I attended regularly.
SO YOU ATTENDED MAINLY OUT OF CURIOSITY? ALL OF YOU HAVE ATTENDED AT SOME POINT AND AT TIMES CONSISTENTLY, BUT WHY NOT ON A CONSISTENT BASIS NOW?
Jeremy Dyches: I was in the Mormon religion 100 percent. I went on Sunday and Tuesdays. I was in the Boys Scouts. I even went to the seminary. The Mormon has a seminary, which is four years of your high school career being dedicated to an early morning or late evening seminary session. So you graduate from that just like you would high school. In seminary what bothered me was the Mormons—just like anybody I guess—would pick out a scripture and ascribe so much meaning to that one scripture without interpreting it in relation to the versus around it and the chapter it is in… I just had so many unanswered questions. Their policies and lifestyle structure really bothered me. In fact, I would stand up in the middle of a sermon and call the preacher out. There were a couple times they asked me to leave. They couldn’t answer me. The biggest thing to me was God called us his children, but then he mentions in the bible that he sent down his only son. I’m like, well what does that make us down here? Women? All these men down here—does that make us women if that’s his only son?
Craig Tootle: Plenty of churches offer services at various times— early and late. Savannah Christian does that. I’ve gone over there a few times on a Saturday and I enjoy that.
WHERE SPECIFICALLY DO YOU ATTEND CHURCH?
Craig Tootle: All over. Savannah Christian, then there is a place on Tibet I go to and there is really no home church for me. People ask me what is home church—I just tell them I’m a visitor.
AND WHY IS THAT? WHY ARE YOU NOT COMMITTED TO ONE PLACE?
Craig Tootle: I just like to mix it up… I like to meet new people at different churches and get a taste of each. One church is Pentecostal; one church is Baptist. I went to the Methodist a few times when I was a kid. It is the same concept… I’m just a free flowing guy.
Marquis Kennedy: It’s not that I am not motivated to go to church; it’s just the way I was raised, I taught that I am my own bible. My life is my bible and this keeps me from being caught up in religion. I can relate to Craig not having a home church. It is good to freelance and see what you can learn from various places because a lot of people get caught up in religion and routine and rituals.
Torian Adger: I have a few reasons why I don’t go consistently. The basic reason is the way preaching is done. Just like Jeremy was saying about the questions that he has. They don’t really elaborate on those things. Seems like these days and times, you can look at the world and see that it takes more to pull us young people in because the demons we are dealing with are stronger.
YES, I THINK YOU MAKE A VALID POINT ESPECIALLY IN THE AGE OF THE INTERNET AND CELL PHONES.
Torain Adgers: So as time change I think they way we are taught to be discerning, needs to be more compelling to us, and I don’t mean to put it all on the preachers to say they aren’t doing a good job, but it is not changing with the times. Like I said before, I went to church with my mother and it seemed like it was the same thing—Telling stories about people like Job. It sounded the same.
WHAT ABOUT HAVING YOUR QUESTIONS ANSWERED IN SUNDAY SCHOOL AND BIBLE STUDY, WHICH IS IN MANY CASES DESIGNED FOR CONVERSATION? HAVE YOU TRIED SUNDAY SCHOOL WHERE YOU CAN GET YOUR QUESTIONS ANSWERED? AND YOU REALLY DON’T HAVE TO DO TOO CLOSE OF A READING OF THOSE STORIES TO FIND POINTS OF WISDOM THAT APPLY TO TODAY.
Torain Adgers: Well another reason for me not going is religion. Everybody emphasizes going consistently and being ritualistic. Religion is not my spirituality. Sometimes I feel like I am supposed to be going to church, but sometimes I feel that I am better off just experiencing life—you know what I mean?—just doing the right thing. They need to talk more down on my level… stop saying God said you got to do this and you go to do that, just talk to me. They need to say something that pulls my spirit. Everybody lives a different lifestyle. I may be on the streets one day just out here not caring. Then at night I go home and I want my family and I am a loving father.
WHAT SPECIFICALLY ARE YOU SAYING? HOW DO THESE CONTRASTS IN WHICH YOU DESCRIBE YOURSELF APPLY TO CHURCH ATTENDANCE?
Torain Adgers: I am saying… sometimes I feel like when I am out there kicking it with my homeboys from back in the day. When I am standing out there, I am asking: should I be doing this? Am I back tracking? You know what I mean? But I don’t feel like that because we have various conversations about some of everything.
WELL, IF YOU AREN’T DOING ANYTHING WRONG, THERE IS NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT.
Torain Adgers: Yeah, but they got everything going on and I am in the midst of it, so it makes me feel funny… But I ask is it wrong? Because I was doing the same thing they were doing, but I ended up at a different place. I decided to get a job and take care of my kids and every now and then I open up the bible and I read.
I DON’T WANT TO PUT WORDS IN YOUR MOUTH BUT I AM TRYING TO CLARIFY YOUR POINT. ARE YOU SAYING THAT WHEN YOU GO TO CHURCH YOU FEEL THAT WHATEVER IS TAUGHT IS NOT RELEVANT TO WHAT IS HAPPENING?
Torain Adgers: I’d like for it [church preaching/teaching] to cover everything, not just point, point, point, pointing fingers and blaming. Everything.
Craig Tootle: I want to add to that. We are so busy right now with work; many of us have class, school, and jobs and kids and marriage. I mean, it’s no excuse not to go to church but you don’t want church to be another daily process like going to another class. I love to wake up and say “Hey, let’s go to church,” and it is spontaneous and sincere rather than making it just another weekend process. I find it a lot more enjoyable then.
WOULD YOU ALL DESCRIBE YOURSELVES AS CHRISTIAN MEN? DO YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF TO BE A CHRISTIAN?
Craig Tootle: Yes, I consider myself to be. I have a relationship with the Lord every night and I thank Him every day. If something goes wrong during the day, I always stop and say a prayer. I thank Him for what I have and I always thank Him every day.
Jeremy Dyches: I don’t consider myself a Christian. I don’t consider myself any denomination… I believe in karma. I believe in what goes around comes around. I don’t believe in living the bible. I believe in making my own story because everything in the bible is just somebody else’s story—their trials and tribulations—what they went through and had to overcome just to show their own willpower. Basically that is just us living our own life and making our own stories. I don’t put a lot of faith in the bible because of how old it is and how many different times its been translated—Constantine, King David—some of those guys weren’t even good people. They translated the bible to work for them.
YES, IT IS A TEXT THAT HAS BEEN TRANSLATED AND RE-TRANSLATED; NEVERTHELESS, PEOPLE STILL TESTIFY ABOUT HAVING A RELATIONSHIP WITH CHRIST. HOW DO YOU ACCOUNT FOR PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD WHO HAVE TESTIFIED ABOUT THE REALITY OF CHRIST?
Jeremy Dyches: I am sure that he (Jesus) was a real person and did some real things but I don’t think he had magical powers and did these amazing things that people claim. There’s a lot of things that a
and kids and marriage. I mean, it’s no excuse not to go to church but you don’t want church to be another daily process like going to another class. I love to wake up and say “Hey, let’s go to church,” and it is spontaneous and sincere rather than making it just another weekend process. I find it a lot more enjoyable then.
WOULD YOU ALL DESCRIBE YOURSELVES AS CHRISTIAN MEN? DO YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF TO BE A CHRISTIAN?
Craig Tootle: Yes, I consider myself to be. I have a relationship with the Lord every night and I thank Him every day. If something goes wrong during the day, I always stop and say a prayer. I thank Him for what I have and I always thank Him every day.
Jeremy Dyches: I don’t consider myself a Christian. I don’t consider myself any denomination… I believe in karma. I believe in what goes around comes around. I don’t believe in living the bible. I believe in making my own story because everything in the bible is just somebody else’s story—their trials and tribulations—what they went through and had to overcome just to show their own willpower. Basically that is just us living our own life and making our own stories. I don’t put a lot of faith in the bible because of how old it is and how many different times its been translated—Constantine, King David—some of those guys weren’t even good people. They translated the bible to work for them.
YES, IT IS A TEXT THAT HAS BEEN TRANSLATED AND RE-TRANSLATED; NEVERTHELESS, PEOPLE STILL TESTIFY ABOUT HAVING A RELATIONSHIP WITH CHRIST. HOW DO YOU ACCOUNT FOR PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD WHO HAVE TESTIFIED ABOUT THE REALITY OF CHRIST?
Jeremy Dyches: I am sure that he (Jesus) was a real person and did some real things but I don’t think he had magical powers and did these amazing things that people claim. There’s a lot of things that a human being can do. You may not be able to do the same thing, so it gets elaborated and exaggerated… just like the telephone game. By the time it gets to the end, you’re asking: what are we talking about and how did we get to this point. We all interpret a message in our own way and in a way that makes sense to us… I want to piggy back on Torain’s earlier comments about why men don’t go to church. It’s because the sermons are too preachy and they get complacent. They (preachers) don’t put in the research or the effort. They need to equate the stories in the bible to personal experiences; they need to equate the story of David and Goliath to what is happening now.
FORGIVE ME FOR INTERRUPTING, BUT FROM WHAT I HEAR WHEN I ATTEND CHURCH, THE CONNECTION BETWEEN THOSE STORIES AND REAL LIVING IN TODAY’S WORLD IS QUITE SOLID.
Jeremy Dyches: It is very vague though. I understand they try to leave it to your imagination, but that is too much for a child or a teenager especially when they don’t even want to be there.
O.K. SO WHAT COULD BE INTERPRETED FROM THE DAVID AND GOLIATH STORY THAT IS HELPFUL?
Jeremy Dyches: To a young man I would incorporate that story to a young man who is on the streets whose mother is working all the time and whose father is not there. I would say, ‘listen you got all these giants on your shoulders; you feel like you are the man of the house but you just want to live free; you want to get out there and enjoy yourself, but you can’t you are struggling; eventually, you are going to run into businesses that you can find a job with—these are the giants, but you have go to find a way to encourage yourself to defeat these giants like David and Goliath did. Go to school , build yourself up, make yourself a person that stands out’.
Marquis Kennedy: I consider myself to be simply a God fearing man. It was the Christian faith that led me to the understanding I have today. I was raised by Christians, Muslims, Shriners, Masons… It’s not that I don’t need church… I feel that I always had knowledge at home because of the people that raised me. I was always pulled aside and preached to and given words of wisdom. And I believe that you can praise the creator anywhere.
DO YOU ALL BELIEVE THAT SATAN IS REAL?
Marquis Kennedy: I believe that people create Satan. It’s in the power of the tongue. Like right now there is no negative energy in this room, but if we start to speak on something bad then this moment will create a dragon.
Craig Tootle: I believe the real part is the temptation, which is everywhere. You only have two choices when doing things—the good way or the bad way, so temptation is always present.
Jeremy Dyches: I honestly think that Satan is a scapegoat for a lot of people. Everything comes down to our persona judgment. It our conscience that leads us. We all know what right and wrong is.
Torian Adgers: If you believe in God, then you should believe in the Devil also, He is real and demons are real. I seen a lot of things and I know that stuff had to be the work of demons.
O.K. AS CONCISELY AS POSSIBLE WHAT IS ONE FINAL THING YOU WOULD SAY TO OUR PASTORS AND MINISTERS TO TRY TO GET YOUNG MEN LIKE YOU 18- 35 TO COME TO CHURCH?
Torain Adgers: If I go to church I want to hear something different. For example, if he was preaching a sermon on death. Most people preach that when you die you have to wait on the judgment, but that makes no sense to me to have to wait on the judgment. Where am I waiting when time only exists in the conscious mind? So when you die, you go into the unconscious where there is no time, so what is waiting?
I’M NOT CLEAR ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.
Torian Adgers: That’s what I am saying; they need to give me something deep that pulls on my spirit.
Jeremy Dyches: If you are going to preach something from the bible, know if before you start preaching, don’t be vague, and be prepared to answer people’s questions… stop preaching at people and preach to them.
Craig Tootle: I am just thinking about how much the church has changed to get people to come. It looks like the churches are already doing a lot to attract a younger crowd. They have bands. I remember when they first started playing electric guitars at church and the old people said that is of the devil. (laughter). But the church was just trying to get younger people to come
SO YOU ARE SAYING THEY ARE ALREADY DOING GOOD THINGS AND SHOULD CONTINUE THEM?
Craig Tootle: Yes.
Marquis Kennedy: To get a young man like me in church, I would tell the preacher to lead by example and not by just telling me to do something. I would tell them to get into the community. Instead of hiding behind the pulpit, they need to come to the street corner or wherever I am. That would tell me that he is really serious. Go to the hangout spots. If he went he would not be harmed.
Having a conversation
make us women if that’s his only son?
Craig Tootle:
Plenty of churches
offer services at various times— early and late. Savannah Christian does that. I’ve gone over there a few times on a Saturday and I enjoy that.
WHERE SPECIFICALLY DO YOU ATTEND CHURCH?
Craig Tootle: All over. Savannah Christian, then there is a place on Tibet I go to and
WAS THE LAST TIME YOU WENT TO CHURCH?
Marquis Kennedy: Well, actually I went to church two weeks ago. I went for a funeral – it was my grandmother. I went for spiritual reasons. My grandmother was well known in the church and community. She was also an Eastern Star. The main reason I went was to say goodbye to her and to connect with family because a lot of them were from out of town.
Craig Tootle: The last time I went to church was earlier this year and I went three or four times consistently then. I just wanted to explore and see what was out there. I even took my girlfriend with me one time. I like going occasionally and finding God on my time. Jeremy Dyches: The last time I went to church was over 10 years ago. My family forced me to go even then. I was raised Mormon. And I wouldn’t call that church; it was more like a cult. Torian Adger: The last time I went to church was with my mother about two years ago. The reason I went was to see what is going on in church now compared to back in the day when I attended regularly.
SO YOU ATTENDED MAINLY OUT OF CURIOSITY? ALL OF YOU HAVE ATTENDED AT SOME POINT AND AT TIMES CONSISTENTLY, BUT WHY NOT ON A CONSISTENT BASIS NOW?
Jeremy Dyches: I was in the Mormon religion 100 percent. I went on Sunday and Tuesdays. I was in the Boys Scouts. I even went to the seminary. The Mormon has a seminary, which is four years of your high school career being dedicated to an early morning or late evening seminary session. So you graduate from that just like you would high school. In seminary what bothered me was the Mormons—just like anybody I guess—would pick out a scripture and ascribe so much meaning to that one scripture without interpreting it in relation to the versus around it and the chapter it is in… I just had so many unanswered questions. Their policies and lifestyle structure really bothered me. In fact, I would stand up in the middle of a sermon and call the preacher out. There were a couple times they asked me to leave. They couldn’t answer me. The biggest thing to me was God called us his children, but then he mentions in the bible that he sent down his only son. I’m like, well what does that make us down here? Women? All these men down here—does that